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Climbing, Adventure, Gear & Choss
Forget Grades, People Are Dumb Too
I’ve been following a recent forum thread over on MountainProject.com, about the upcoming 2nd edition of the Indian Creek guidebook. Author Dave Bloom put out a request for any photos or info people might like to see added to the book. In return, he got an earful from a vocal minority, some of whom were blaming him for “ruining” the creek. I always find these arguments entertaining. I mean can someone really be so blindly ignorant as to think that a guidebook is the reason a world class climbing area is crowded? Maybe it’s the easy, road side access, or the thousands of splitters, or the perfect weather… Nope, it’s the guidebook’s fault, and especially that evil, greedy author! Let’s string that guy up by his balls! Then I’m sure everyone will stop coming!
Sure, climbing at crowded areas generally sucks compared to having the place to yourself, but that’s the reality of living in a world where there are only going to be more and more people, and more climbers. Might as well figure out how to make the most of it, and be good to each other. We’re all in this together.
7 Responses to Forget Grades, People Are Dumb Too
Bulldog Creek Dog Walk (IV WI 4+)
Hayden Carpenter and Tom Bohanon recently repeated an obscure ice climb on the south side of Mt Sopris. Given a brief mention in Jack Robert’s ice guide, Bulldog Creek Walk is described as being 100 meters of WI 4. What they found was seven pitches of ice in a remote setting that makes for one […]
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Yes a guide book can ruin any area, are you a fool?! We are tyring to make the most of it by attempting to keep out Eastern low life. We’re not in this together, we Westerns are sick of the east taking and taking.
Suck it Jones. Suck it long and suck it hard.
Easy there, Jim… we beat the British, the colonies bought the Louisiana Purchase, the 49ers manifested west, the North won the war, etc. etc. We’re (mostly) just a bunch of climbers tyring to find a little bliss on the rock and ice. Guidebooks don’t ruin anything, people do. Maybe focus our energies on getting folks to take care of the areas we love, rather than flaming “authors”, “easterns”, “green license-platers”. Seriously – that thread on MP – what a sad commentary on the state of climbers today…
This isn’t intended to be rude, but I wouldn’t say that Colorado’s climbing scene is “primitive”. If you want remote, move to less populated states. Wyoming perhaps? Idaho crags are crowded with too many friendly climbers for you, I suppose. It shouldn’t matter how many folks are at a crag if they’re responsible and nice. I’d rather be around 10 friendly East Coast climbers than a singular mean, grouchy one from the West. The comment about the Easterners is a bit juvenile, don’t you think? I’m not from the East, but I’d bet you’re pissed at anyone who moves to Colorado, right? Maybe you should try to redirect your anger with kindness instead. Happy Holidays!
In regard to Indian Creek, IMHO if the Dugout Ranch issues were not there to deter access Indian Creek would have been destroyed by now from cimbers impact. On my last trip we could see camp fires in none camping areas, and there were reports of folks bivying in Donnely Canyon parking lot. These actions are the surest way to close access to an area. My first trip to the Creek was in 1985. At that time all we had was a hand drawn topo on notebook paper. We discussed issues about the best waste management practices and how to minimize our impact. Since then I make a few trips each fall and spring. My friends and I all share the same values and common sense approach to minimizing our impact and leaving areas as clean an untrodden as possible. Over the 33 years I have been climbing I have seen a significant change in climber’s attitudes in regard to how they interact and treat the environment. The issue here is one of stewardship, and it seems climbers these days are self absorbed with little interest in the history of an area and really could care less about being a good steward to the land. If you have not camped before educate yourself on ways to minimize your impact. Little things like were to pitch a tent to minimize plant and soil destruction. Walking in drainages that change each season rather than on fragile soils. Burying your shit if you don’t have a wag bag. It doesn’t take a lot.
As far as an updated guide book I don’t know how to determine the impact a new guidebook has on an area. Guidebooks have and always will be a subject of debate. If you do not beleive in publishing guides then don’t report first ascents. The best info we had for IC in ’85 were the plaques at the base of routes. There are miles of unexplored windgate, so if crowds are a problem go explore.
Finally, I looked at the MP thread and could not believe the childish responses. I do not see the need to flame someone if you disagree, simply state your opinion. Thats my 2 cents.
Happy Holidays!
I’m with you guys – what I’m really sick of is people being jerks and a-holes. The only low lifes in my book are people who think they’re better than everyone else so they can go around calling other people low lifes. Lame. Get a life. You’re supposed to be having fun. So if you can’t go climbing and have fun anymore then take up another sport, like knitting – that way you can sit back and eat some cheese to go with your perpetual “whine” song.
There, I tried to be nice, but I hate listening to stupid, mean people. And, I’m with Tracy – I’m not from the East but I’m mature enough to know it’s asinine to make fun of people from the East, or any group (social, political, religious, ethnic, etc.) for that matter.
Jim, by we westerns you must mean Ute, right? Are you for the southern rez or the tribal mountain park? Jones doesn’t sound like a traditional name. Or, are you just like any other white cracker that migrated to these parts trying to put a fence around his claim thinking you own what you can take with force?